Who wants to live forever?
Sep. 6th, 2009 09:29 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
gekidasaI have no clue how many people (aside from ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
dimmie) actually read my Ryuki posts*, but in any case, I promised myself that I wasn't gonna make them all about Super Lawyer, because that's ridiculous, it's not Kamen Rider Zolda, but this episde I'm just going to indulge because it's THE episde. Up until this episode, Kitaoka was a really amusing douchebag, but that was it. This episode was my "...oooh *_*" moment, where I realize that.. well, he IS a douchebag, but he's a really INTERESTING douchebag. A douchebag that I was probably doomed to latch on to, grown up Atobe or not.
*Haha, I totally get why. I don't have a "tl;dr" tag for no reason.
Anyway.
So it all starts with Super Lawyer and Ren, post-battle, and they have their really interesting conversation, in which Kitaoka mocks Ren and calls him naive/inmature, and basically figures out that Ren is fighting for the sake of a girl, and makes light of that, and says he's strong because he fights only for himself. And when Ren asks what he's fighting for, Kitaoka tells him "Eternal life". And this is obviously not a surprise, he as much as said so when talking to Shinji before, and of course, before the revelations from later in the episode, it IS a very selfish, hedonistic reason. Kitaoka comes off as a complete, self-serving bastard with no ideals. He's jaded and cynical, to think that fighting for someone or something else is something so laughable.
Incidently, it's actually very similar, in a way, to Ren's earlier dismissal of Shinji for becoming a rider in order to protect people. Both Kitaoka and Ren are so wrapped up in their own issues, that they are incapable of giving any credit or any proper weight to someone else's motives. For them both, THEIR reason for fighting trumps all, and they both reacted to someone having an ideal that they fight for by dismissing it as naive. It's interesting, the parallels, because even though they're not really similar (Ren is a nice person with a stand-offish attitude, while Kitaoka is a charming man who isn't really a nice person), there's parallels, specially when you consider how much about them both is smoke and mirrors.
Anyway, obviously this conversation takes on a whole other dimension after the revelation from further in the episode. :D
And now, a small parenthesis unrelated to Super Lawyer, to say SHINJI, I LOVE YOU, YOU DORK XDDDDD
Seriously, Suga is a fffff*ing GENIUS in these scenes. I love how you can just tell that Shinji is completely, totally losing it, little by little.
And I love how Ren delights in being an asshole to him, but you can totally tell that it comes froma place of love by now, even if Ren himself won't admit it (that loan is a really handy excuse, isn't it?).
Anyway, back to Kitaoka, apparently I have no screencaps, but this is where we learn that he's got a terminal disease of some sort (it was cancer, wasn't it?) and that's my "...ooh" moment right there, because suddenly there's this whole other side to him wanting eternal life. It IS hedonistic and self-serving, but there's also... well, imagine you're Kitaoka, you're rich, successful, you can have anything you want, and suddenly you learn... you're dying. You only have a really short time to enjoy your life. It's kind of like one big cosmic joke at your expense, so now there's this other, really interesting side to him. And I'm a sucker for doomed characters, so this was the moment I latched on to Super Lawyer.
Then later, there is the scene in his office, where Ren, Yui and Reiko fire him for trying to frame Shinji.
That's hawt. >>
*cough* Right, so I think what the scene does is it establishes once again how much of a condescending douchebag Kitaoka is. He doesn't care WHAT they all think of, and he reacts by mocking them. Not only that, he's such an asshole that he kicks a little girl asking him to save her daddy out of his office because "I hate kids", and you can tell that even Goro-chan is really embarrased by him over all this. Goro-chan was obviously hoping sensei would do the right thing for once.
No dice, honey.
Goro-chan looks so CUTE here. I think I need to icon this.
So basically, I love this exchange. Almost no words, just Kitaoka telling Goro-chan to come back already, and Goro-chan refusing to look at him and looking like a hurt little boy. It's so adorable, and it's so much of what is awesome about their relationship. There's so much between them that just can't be expressed through words. In this case, again, Goro-chan is not surprised that Kitaoka is a dick, but he was hoping he wouldn't be, just this once. He was hoping really hard, and he's so disappointed. And Kitaoka, who doesn't give a rat's ass what anyone thinks abotu him can't really admit to himself that disappointing Goro-chan makes him a little teeny bit sad. I'm not saying he's got a conscience underneath or anything (he might or he might not), I don't know yet, but he's not COMPLETELY heartless. Just with most people.
But then, the moment the hospital is mentioned, his expression completely changes.
...I just really like this shot.
So basically, Kitaoka finds out that the girl's mother is dying and they can't afford surgery, and when he and Goro-chan are in the hospital with Yukari, his comments are still assholeish, but then he goes and arranges to pay for the mother's surgery himself.
...And Goro-chan is so HAPPY that sensei did something noble like that. And Yukari is so thankful.
But the thing is, Kitaoka doesn't WANT her thanks, in fact he seems downright uncomfortable and embarased by it. Because it's not like when really nice people do a good thing for someone else and don't need to have it be made public because to them doing good is its own reward. That's not it at all. Kitaoka is not a good samaritan doing good because he has a huge heart. Obviously, things may be revealed later to make me change my mind, but for the time being I will say... Kitaoka is not a jerk with a heart of gold. Kitaoka is a self-serving douchebag, and I seriously doubt he payed for the surgery out of nobility or kindness. Personally, what I think happened is that Yukari's situation struck a nerve. It hit a little too close to home. It made him feel a twinge. It reminded him that he's human. And I think he hates that. I think he hates the idea that he might actually be capable of giving a shit about other people. And so the easiest way to deal with that is to... make the cause of the reminder go away. So he pays for the surgery, which means there IS no situation threatening to make him feel sympathy, but he doesn't ADMIT he payed for it, because it would be interpreted as actually caring. That's why Yukari's thanks and Goro-chan's pride in him makes him uncomfortable. Because in his own mind, he wasn't being nice, he was still acting out of an instinct of self-preservation, and because the idea that he has the capacity to care for anyone that is not himself is a possibility he's probably downright terrified of.
(Again, I'm open to the idea that I may change my mind about how much of a heart Kitaoka actually has... in fact I expect that he'll grow at least a little bit of one, but for now, this is what I see, and it's SO very interesting.)
Anyway, this all goes right in line with everythign that happens once Shinji, Ren and Yui show up. Ren of course assumes the worst, that he's trying to manipulate Yukari into changing her testimony to send Shinji back to jail, and Shinji has no reason to believe anythign else, and they both think he's a scumbag and want to kick his ass. And he doesnt' bother telling them they're wrong about what he's doing or that they're wrong about him, because it really is completely irrelevant to him at this point. And when Yukari comes to his defense and tells them not to pick on sensei... he just wipes his lip, doesn't deign to look at anyone, gets in his car and leaves without a word. Because Yukari's gratitude, in his own opinion, is misplaced.
dimmie) actually read my Ryuki posts*, but in any case, I promised myself that I wasn't gonna make them all about Super Lawyer, because that's ridiculous, it's not Kamen Rider Zolda, but this episde I'm just going to indulge because it's THE episde. Up until this episode, Kitaoka was a really amusing douchebag, but that was it. This episode was my "...oooh *_*" moment, where I realize that.. well, he IS a douchebag, but he's a really INTERESTING douchebag. A douchebag that I was probably doomed to latch on to, grown up Atobe or not.*Haha, I totally get why. I don't have a "tl;dr" tag for no reason.
Anyway.
So it all starts with Super Lawyer and Ren, post-battle, and they have their really interesting conversation, in which Kitaoka mocks Ren and calls him naive/inmature, and basically figures out that Ren is fighting for the sake of a girl, and makes light of that, and says he's strong because he fights only for himself. And when Ren asks what he's fighting for, Kitaoka tells him "Eternal life". And this is obviously not a surprise, he as much as said so when talking to Shinji before, and of course, before the revelations from later in the episode, it IS a very selfish, hedonistic reason. Kitaoka comes off as a complete, self-serving bastard with no ideals. He's jaded and cynical, to think that fighting for someone or something else is something so laughable.
Incidently, it's actually very similar, in a way, to Ren's earlier dismissal of Shinji for becoming a rider in order to protect people. Both Kitaoka and Ren are so wrapped up in their own issues, that they are incapable of giving any credit or any proper weight to someone else's motives. For them both, THEIR reason for fighting trumps all, and they both reacted to someone having an ideal that they fight for by dismissing it as naive. It's interesting, the parallels, because even though they're not really similar (Ren is a nice person with a stand-offish attitude, while Kitaoka is a charming man who isn't really a nice person), there's parallels, specially when you consider how much about them both is smoke and mirrors.
Anyway, obviously this conversation takes on a whole other dimension after the revelation from further in the episode. :D
And now, a small parenthesis unrelated to Super Lawyer, to say SHINJI, I LOVE YOU, YOU DORK XDDDDD
Seriously, Suga is a fffff*ing GENIUS in these scenes. I love how you can just tell that Shinji is completely, totally losing it, little by little.
And I love how Ren delights in being an asshole to him, but you can totally tell that it comes froma place of love by now, even if Ren himself won't admit it (that loan is a really handy excuse, isn't it?).
Anyway, back to Kitaoka, apparently I have no screencaps, but this is where we learn that he's got a terminal disease of some sort (it was cancer, wasn't it?) and that's my "...ooh" moment right there, because suddenly there's this whole other side to him wanting eternal life. It IS hedonistic and self-serving, but there's also... well, imagine you're Kitaoka, you're rich, successful, you can have anything you want, and suddenly you learn... you're dying. You only have a really short time to enjoy your life. It's kind of like one big cosmic joke at your expense, so now there's this other, really interesting side to him. And I'm a sucker for doomed characters, so this was the moment I latched on to Super Lawyer.
Then later, there is the scene in his office, where Ren, Yui and Reiko fire him for trying to frame Shinji.
That's hawt. >>
*cough* Right, so I think what the scene does is it establishes once again how much of a condescending douchebag Kitaoka is. He doesn't care WHAT they all think of, and he reacts by mocking them. Not only that, he's such an asshole that he kicks a little girl asking him to save her daddy out of his office because "I hate kids", and you can tell that even Goro-chan is really embarrased by him over all this. Goro-chan was obviously hoping sensei would do the right thing for once.
No dice, honey.
Goro-chan looks so CUTE here. I think I need to icon this.
So basically, I love this exchange. Almost no words, just Kitaoka telling Goro-chan to come back already, and Goro-chan refusing to look at him and looking like a hurt little boy. It's so adorable, and it's so much of what is awesome about their relationship. There's so much between them that just can't be expressed through words. In this case, again, Goro-chan is not surprised that Kitaoka is a dick, but he was hoping he wouldn't be, just this once. He was hoping really hard, and he's so disappointed. And Kitaoka, who doesn't give a rat's ass what anyone thinks abotu him can't really admit to himself that disappointing Goro-chan makes him a little teeny bit sad. I'm not saying he's got a conscience underneath or anything (he might or he might not), I don't know yet, but he's not COMPLETELY heartless. Just with most people.
But then, the moment the hospital is mentioned, his expression completely changes.
...I just really like this shot.
So basically, Kitaoka finds out that the girl's mother is dying and they can't afford surgery, and when he and Goro-chan are in the hospital with Yukari, his comments are still assholeish, but then he goes and arranges to pay for the mother's surgery himself.
...And Goro-chan is so HAPPY that sensei did something noble like that. And Yukari is so thankful.
But the thing is, Kitaoka doesn't WANT her thanks, in fact he seems downright uncomfortable and embarased by it. Because it's not like when really nice people do a good thing for someone else and don't need to have it be made public because to them doing good is its own reward. That's not it at all. Kitaoka is not a good samaritan doing good because he has a huge heart. Obviously, things may be revealed later to make me change my mind, but for the time being I will say... Kitaoka is not a jerk with a heart of gold. Kitaoka is a self-serving douchebag, and I seriously doubt he payed for the surgery out of nobility or kindness. Personally, what I think happened is that Yukari's situation struck a nerve. It hit a little too close to home. It made him feel a twinge. It reminded him that he's human. And I think he hates that. I think he hates the idea that he might actually be capable of giving a shit about other people. And so the easiest way to deal with that is to... make the cause of the reminder go away. So he pays for the surgery, which means there IS no situation threatening to make him feel sympathy, but he doesn't ADMIT he payed for it, because it would be interpreted as actually caring. That's why Yukari's thanks and Goro-chan's pride in him makes him uncomfortable. Because in his own mind, he wasn't being nice, he was still acting out of an instinct of self-preservation, and because the idea that he has the capacity to care for anyone that is not himself is a possibility he's probably downright terrified of.
(Again, I'm open to the idea that I may change my mind about how much of a heart Kitaoka actually has... in fact I expect that he'll grow at least a little bit of one, but for now, this is what I see, and it's SO very interesting.)
Anyway, this all goes right in line with everythign that happens once Shinji, Ren and Yui show up. Ren of course assumes the worst, that he's trying to manipulate Yukari into changing her testimony to send Shinji back to jail, and Shinji has no reason to believe anythign else, and they both think he's a scumbag and want to kick his ass. And he doesnt' bother telling them they're wrong about what he's doing or that they're wrong about him, because it really is completely irrelevant to him at this point. And when Yukari comes to his defense and tells them not to pick on sensei... he just wipes his lip, doesn't deign to look at anyone, gets in his car and leaves without a word. Because Yukari's gratitude, in his own opinion, is misplaced.
no subject
Date: 2009-09-07 05:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-09-07 05:05 am (UTC)(Granted, I was out a good part of the afternoon, but still)
no subject
Date: 2009-09-08 12:25 am (UTC)I have to say, this is not a Ren-Kitaoka thing. ALL the Riders in Ryuki think like this. Even Shinji. It's partly why Kanzaki's game works, because the premise of the game is that everyone involved has to be so attached to their final wish that they're willing to kill people for it.
As for Super Lawyer... esh, it's really hard to say anything about your theories about him without spoiling stuff. Not actually important stuff, really, just, it's hard to say yeah I agree or no I disagree because either way it would be telling what Kitaoka's real nature is, and I'm not sure you want to know or just see for yourself. So, yeah. This ep was cute. :D;;
no subject
Date: 2009-09-08 01:18 am (UTC)But yeah, you're right. I'd rather see for myself. More fun that way. XD
no subject
Date: 2009-09-28 09:45 am (UTC)He's got a lot of money. A lot. Some people with that much money will just shrug at the expense of one surgery. I am certain that the girl's story hit a nerve with him, but like you, I'm not entirely sure which nerve. Paying her mother's surgery could give him several payloads:
- one over on Death - 'here's one you won't be taking'
- removal of Goro-chan's gloomy pout
- if - if - he doesn't make it, will this one good deed weigh against all his bad? (very unconsciously, I don't for a minute believe he would actually think like that)
- the girl won't come pestering him again
Not a bad outcome when all he has to do is for over a bit of money. /Theory
no subject
Date: 2009-09-28 12:09 pm (UTC)#1 - too heroic and selfless a thought for Kitaoka to have. ANd what you said about #3